Mormonism LIVE: 044: Straw Man vs Steel Man: A Lesson In Rational Thinking

Today we take a look at the Logical Fallacy of the Straw Man argument and juxtapose it against what it means to Steel Man someone. A Straw Man argument is when you misrepresent someone’s argument to make it easier to attack. We define a Straw Man argument, share an example, discuss how to incorporate good faith in a disagreement by instead choosing to Steel Man the disagreement, and then show how Mormonism holds up to the actual argument being made when that argument is represented fairly.

RESOURCES:

 

https://youtu.be/zYVBA8n9-pU?t=25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/08/post-nuanced-view-church-gods-plan/

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/10/premium-holy-ghost-conundrum/

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/oaks-ballard?cid=HP_SU_19-11-2017_dPFD_fBCAST_xLIDyL1-B_&lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/apostles-answer-questions-about-standards-doubts-during-ysa-face-to-face?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2004/10/be-not-deceived?lang=eng

 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual-2017/chapter-19-doctrine-and-covenants-50?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-recognize-and-understand-the-spirit?lang=eng

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/good-news-from-god/recognize-true-worshippers/

https://www.learnreligions.com/how-to-find-a-church-700487

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUvC9s4VYA

https://youtu.be/lwkh_aliF3E

 

https://youtu.be/UJMSU8Qj6Go

 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2002/10/the-marvelous-foundation-of-our-faith?lang=eng

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/07/12/commentary-latter-day/

 

https://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Talks/Feb%2015%2019798%20First%20Presidency%20Gods%20Love%20for%20all%20mankind.html

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2017/12/premium-lucy-walker-spiritual-experiences/

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Mormonism LIVE: 043: Modern Day Mormon Danites

operandi is at work today inside Modern Mormonism through the SCMC, and other people and processes that work to ensure that believing members are kept at arms length from people, voices, and information that is both accurate and contradictory to the inaccurate but faithful dominant narrative.

RESOURCES:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danite

https://benjaminepark.com/

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/sensationalism-a-one-sided-perspective/

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/10/jana-riess-why-did-byu/

https://web.archive.org/web/20210120130850/https:/mi.byu.edu/scholars/benjamin-park/

https://mi.byu.edu/scholars/benjamin-park/

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Mormonism LIVE! 040: Symphony Of LGBT Mis-Direction & Mr. Holland Dopus

Since its inception in 1830 LDS Leaders have been consistent at one thing. While lip service is given to being a Church that has Prophets, Seers, and Revelators who claim to speak for God and give direction from on high, these men seem to always be behind the times, stating outdated false misconceptions and teaching false and at times harmful rhetoric. No where can this be more easily recognized than on the LGBT issue. But….. sadly It doesn’t stop there.

RESOURCES:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg36L1989Ss&ab_channel=BYUSpeeches

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ay5dk9mky0p0sm7/OnTheRecord7-27.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9z40tx8wd9rt9m/homosexuality.pdf?dl=0

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/explaining-religious-freedom-and-lgbt-rights

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Mormonism LIVE: 039: When Mission Presidents Behave Badly

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Mormonism LIVE: 038: The Second Anointing

In Mormonism the very elite of membership including Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, along with Seventies and the top 15 along with all their wives receive a secret ritual that confers to them that their “Calling and Election” has been made sure. What is this ritual? What do we know about it? How has the church framed it in their theology? and why do only a select few receive it? This and more on this week’s episode. RESOURCES:

 

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V16N01_12.pdf https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmyldshistory.blogspot.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0YbteylqfjyBp3P_E8vU6c3WdGzGrCsOldzbCteN1jHdANClh8-TNfGPQ&h=AT0n2SeXpCqsisJ4BybEBV99LV5oOGWdD4p1HtYeYqON6tSYCRjkkxg7aHU-9f2gtlBVUUcy0PkhgbhWw6H5-T9wuBaTiuWCo1PeaxDh-KypeEmBY6CoYcW_Kl-seflSHqc

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing

 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel/chapter-19?lang=eng Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing.

 

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/tom-phillips-and-the-second-anointing/

 

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm

 

https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon508.htm

 

http://archives.lib.byu.edu/repositories/14/archival_objects/255732

 

http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Second_Anointing

 

http://www.fact-index.com/s/se/second_anointing.html https://www.lds-mormon.com/2danointing-shtml/

 

https://blog.mrm.org/2013/01/the-second-anointing-of-modern-day-mormonism/ https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Calling_and_Election https://www.jstor.org/stable/44368772

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Mormonism LIVE: 035: Will The Real Apostle Please Stand Up !

In this week’s episode of Mormonism Live, we will investigate the integrity of the not only the President of the Church but also the integrity of the Quorum of the 12. Once one grasps the systemic issue within LDS Leadership, One’s trust in them becomes anything other guaranteed.

RESOURCES:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2016-01-1000-worldwide-devotional-january-2016?lang=eng 45:35 – 46:38 Time Stamp

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/04/10/mormon-land-lds-churchs/ 4:47 – 5:46 Time Stamp

In his memoirs, An Abundant Life, Elder Hugh B. Brown explained “the Apostolic Charge” that every apostle is apparently given upon admittance to the Q12. It reads as follows: “Always be willing to subjugate his own thoughts and accept the majority opinion not only to vote for it but to act as though it were his own original opinion after it has been approved by the majority of the council of the twelve and the First Presidency.”

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Mormonism LIVE: 034: Ask Us Almost Anything & More

This weeks episode will feature RFM and Bill Reel unveiling a new show under the Mormonism Discussion Inc. umbrella and some reflection on last weeks episode regarding Nelson’s flight and we touch on the passing of Robert Ritner and spend the last half of the Show doing an AMA. RESOURCES: https://backyardprofessor.org/ http://fornspollfira.blogspot.com/2021/07/robert-kreich-ritner-jr-1953-2021.html https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/general-conference-saturday-evening-session-update

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Mormonism LIVE: 033: President Nelson’s Flight of Death

Today We explore a story President Nelson has told for years about a flight he was on in the 1970’s. He reports the plane’s engine exploding, the wing catching fire, a death spiral by the plane, the chaos aboard, and the plane’s landing in a farmer’s field. This story had many questioning the truthfulness of his account but there was never a smoking gun to get to the truth of the matter………. until now.

WHERE PRESIDENT NELSON OR OTHERS HAVE TOLD THE STORY

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1992/05/doors-of-death?lang=eng

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-argentina-2019

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/28/22355277/president-nelson-invites-all-to-feel-the-peace-and-hope-of-easter-by-focusing-on-the-savior

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=EMwKxmTLaCs&ab_channel=TheChurchofJesusChristofLatter-daySaints

Russell M. Nelson, From Heart to Heart: An Autobiography (Salt Lake City: Nelson, 1979)

Russell M. Nelson: Father, Surgeon, Apostle – Spencer J Condie: Author

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1994/06/most-important?lang=eng Russell M. Nelson, The Gateway We Call Death (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995)

https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2004-09-18/gospel-principles-vital-to-correct-living-94995

https://www.deseret.com/2006/4/15/19948411/death-is-part-of-life-ex-surgeon-says

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2018-09-03/president-nelson-delivers-historic-message-to-dominican-latter-day-saints-in-spanish-8931

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-shares-5-lessons-life-has-taught-me-with-49000-in-safeco-field?lang=eng

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2018-10-26/president-nelson-finds-church-thriving-in-uruguay-thanks-to-multiple-generations-of-members-missionaries-156122

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-argentina-2019

THE CLAIMS PRESIDENT NELSON HAS MADE THAT WERE RED FLAGS

1.) One Engine on a small Two Engine plane Exploded.
2.) Said Engine caught fire.
3.) In the Explosion flammable material was spread to the plane and the plane itself was on fire.
4.) The plane did a “Death Spiral” which extinguished the fire
5.) The Pilot “turned on the Other Engine”
6.) The plane landed in a “Farmer’s Field”

THE FACTS THAT ALLOWED OTHERS TO NARROW WHAT TO LOOK FOR

 1.) The Date of the flight was reported as November 12, 1976
2.) He was flying from SLC to St. George to attend the inauguration of W. Rolfe Kerr as the president of Dixie College.
3.) Anytime a plane incurs a malfunction or there is a mechanical flight issue or pilot error the Law requires such to be recorded. The Explosion would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The plane on fire would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The Death Spiral would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The landing in a Farmer’s Field
would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report.

IF THE STORY OCCURRED THE WAY PRESIDENT NELSON HAS REPORTED, THERE ABSOLUTELY WOULD BE A REPORT THAT IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. MOST FABRICATIONS HINGE ON SOME GRAIN OF TRUTH, SO MANY IN THE POST-MORMON COMMUNITY WENT INTO DETECTIVE MODE.

THE FLIGHT REPORT FOR THIS FLIGHT WAS FINALLY LOCATED (IT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND DUE TO THE MUNDANE ISSUES INCURRED THAT SEEMINGLY CONTRADICT NELSON’S STORY )



https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/wNa3AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1090&dq=skywest+incidents+1976

1.) Engine never exploded and continued to run though rough
2.) There was no Engine Fire.
3.) The Plane itself was never on fire
4.) The Other Engine was never off
4.) The plane made a “Precautionary landing at the airport in Delta Utah and not a farmer’s field
5.) There are other smaller issues with number of passengers, length of flight, cutting fuel line to both engines, and the date of the flight but we grant some benefit of the doubt for distorted memory.

If the Church or its defenders want to claim the conclusion that this flight one day earlier is NOT the flight President Nelson is speaking about, then the burden of proof is on them to provide the evidence. To claim there was another “SKY WEST” flight also going from SLC TO SAINT GEORGE” that had “WORSE ISSUES” “ONE DAY LATER”, then provide the “MANDATORY PUBLICLY AVAILABLE FLIGHT REPORT” of said flight. Without such, said conclusion by the defenders would require more conjecture and allowances.


The Plane believed to be the One Nelson rode that day

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Mormonism LIVE ! : 027: Spencer Wright – Apologetic Logical Fallacies

We sit down with author, Spencer Wright, to talk about Logical Fallacies. We will examine a few ways in which certain fallacies are used in Mormonism and help the viewer/listener grasp how irrational certain apologetic arguments are. How Mormon Apologists carefully move the person investigating truth claims and history to making room for anything that it possible even if that thing is highly unlikely and do so in ways that one feels comfortable maintaining belief even though that belief may be irrational.

Spencer Wright is the author of the book, “How To Think: Why Rational and Faith Based Thinking Are In Compatible”

RESOURCES:

Spencer’s Book “How To Think” https://www.amazon.com/How-Think-Spencer-K-Wright/dp/1986747069

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/common-logical-fallacies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and-tools/fallacies/

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

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Mormonism LIVE !: 025: The Adam God Deception

Mormonism has placed each believer into having to choose which Prophets you believe and which Prophets you don’t. Choosing which Prophets are right about the views they hold claiming they got them from God and which prophets were simply wrong claiming something came from God when it must surely be their own false view since the views are contradictory. In the end the disagreement seems so obviously contradictory that one must choose one claim over the other which leaves them dismissing a prophet and having that prophet apparently unable to discern between the voice of God and his own false imagination. And once you admit that prophets and those who place faith in them are no more able to discern truth from error via the Holy Ghost…… Then how does one navigate with certainty about their own spiritual knowings and those of the prophets when one could be misled this easily. And the Cherry on top is the LDS Church’s continued Deception around the issue including misleading members by articulating the issue as if Brigham didn’t teach it through their talks, the Church manuals, and private letters demanding silence.

RESOURCES:

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:Was_the%22Adam-God%22_theory_ever_taught_as_part_of_the_temple_endowment_ceremony_as_something_called_%22the_lecture_at_the_veil%22%3F

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1975/04/a-self-inflicted-purging?lang=eng

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1976/10/our-own-liahona?lang=eng

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/adam-the-archangel?lang=eng

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie/seven-deadly-heresies/#byu-header

http://www.eugeneengland.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BRM-to-EE-Feb-80-Combined.pdf

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-14?lang=eng

https://journalofdiscourses.com/9/27

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-4?lang=eng

https://www.journalofdiscourses.com/1/8

 

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