Mormonism LIVE ! : 018: Lazy Learners & Shrinkage

Mormonism LIVE ! – April 2021 General Conference Edition RFM and Bill Reel will sit down and review some of big happenings and talks in April 2021 General Conference. And if absolutely zilch happens, then we will address the recent handbook changes and discuss what they say about where they came from and where the Church moves forward because of those changes.

Recent Handbook Changes allowing single members more opportunities to serve – https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/general-handbook-update-march-2021

2020 Membership Report – https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2021-general-conference-statistical-report

President Nelson’s Lazy Learner Talk – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VGCEQLzITk

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Mormonism LIVE ! : 017: Mormon Minecraft

As RFM prepared for last weeks episode on Miner’s Hill he came across some things in regards to Joseph Smith’s treasure Digging that you won’t want to miss. Mormonism LIVE ! Tonight has multiple bombshells with one of them being YUGE! Like blew my mind HUUUUGE. These are all things almost everyone doesn’t know with the major bombshell absolutely being unknown to everyone and a game changer.1.) Who with and where did Joseph Smith dig specifically for the Gold plates before Cumorah? and before 1823? 2.) Proof the Church is still not being transparent with damaging documents even on its Joseph Smith Papers Project Website. They are still trying to avoid believers confronting the facts and keeping data from a believer accessing such..3.) We take the Apologist’s strongest evidence of the Book of Mormon and show a much more reasonable contemporary example in Joseph Smith’s milieu.4.) AND THE BIGGEST BOMBSHELL OF THEM ALL WHICH WE WILL UNVEIL ON THE SHOW TONIGHT………. YOU WON’T WANT TO MISS THIS. Faculty of Abrac – https://twitter.com/shuffard/status/1294357248546951169/photo/1 W W Phelps letter to Eber D Howe – http://www.solomonspalding.com/NEWSP/HOWE/Ex04a.htm Transcript of Joseph Knight Sr’s Recollection – https://byustudies.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/17.1JesseeJoseph.pdf Brian Hales website showing the section of Oliver Cowdery’s letter to his brother Warren displaying the SCRAPE/AFFAIR – https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/oliver-cowdery-letter-to-warren-a-cowdery-olivers-brother-january-21-1838/ Joseph Smith Papers Project not being transparent about the letter – https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-from-oliver-cowdery-21-january-1838/1 The full letter book including the Oliver/Warren Cowdery Letter about the Alger Scrape/Affair – https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/JSP_Book_91.pdf Nahum VS Nahom VS NHM – https://historyofmormonism.com/2012/11/14/newel-knight/ Nahum’s dissapearance – https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/they-are-my-friends-a-history-of-the-joseph-knight-family-18251850/ LDS Church’s Changing Narrative around the Translation Process – https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VZkKUmC-cjB_DnqWp9HHyW7v677e4IlUQORHn6ydOyA/edit?fbclid=IwAR3bbWLgmhXrMOq2vQxzDkN-bW3kbpJVE1-FcHLWm-tVYNmwPn3gtNx1hbc

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Mormonism LIVE !: 016: Peek Stones, Sheep’s Bones, and Gold Thrones all on Miner’s Hill

How prevalent was Joseph Smith’s treasure digging? Where all did Joseph Smith dig for treasures. What do we know about these treasure seeking sites? What do the historical sources tell us about these treasure digs? Black Sheep, Gold Furniture, Sacred scripture translated inside these man dug caves.

RESOURCES:

KC Kern & Greg Pavone Miner’s Hill Project Website 1 – https://archival.link/mormoncave/story?fbclid=IwAR0GLubkK_y8lfDciIgs2vYPHtnX9fkigPX0O5IA5QekS1aULryUM_q9xHA

KC Kern & Greg Pavone Miner’s Hill Project Website 2 – https://imgur.com/gallery/pRGJl?fbclid=IwAR1oN3pmDljsTA1w5TBndASDxTf648P6nCuVVnj3iRqVVpfRg8IERY2YftY

Dan Vogel’s The Locations of Joseph Smith’s Early Treasure Quests https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/03/VogelTreasuredigs.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1fHa7pfUtaf7CTlEhS-hvHSKCWIFXlig0t_AARJ_OxtELfWBS59LvpqMI

Historical Sources Related to Miner’s Hill Cave https://archival.link/mormoncave/sources?fbclid=IwAR2WXX-gYTmXB_Qn6cnonpqQ-lfDHlMri4g-2veT1SIgMhufxtDGjHSQIoI

Cumorah’s Cave PDF https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=jbms&fbclid=IwAR3HMObEXTYBVCOxZI5Jqx796yaOWu5hbFWlbKkvwAzdGpTNiWX5QSHcgiM

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Mormonism LIVE !: 015: Tales of Hofmann

On tonight’s episode RFM and Bill Reel dive further into the Mark Hofmann story exposing Elder Oaks and at the time Elder Gordon B. Hinckley as potentially deceiving and lying about what transpired in their meeting with Hofmann and their efforts to obtain what they believed were authentic and also damaging documents to the Church’s narrative and the faith of its members.  Bill concludes with revealing multiple never before seen documents including the Hofmann’s outline for the forged 116 pages of the book of Lehi, Hofmann’s Psychological evaluation, his education report cards, and a master list of all the signatures/authored documents he forged of famous people.

RESOURCES:

Elder Oaks 1985 talk that includes much around the Hofmann affair including suggesting a Salamander could be interpreted as the angel Moroni – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAL-qLOISs

Elder Oaks suggesting if we keep the commandments we won’t be deceived while the listener recognizes Elder Oaks, then Elder Gordon B Hinckley, and other leaders were in fact deceived by Hofmann – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAL-qLOISs

Elder Oaks saying way too much about the Hofmann ordeal that in the end compromises the events as he tells them https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1987/10/recent-events-involving-church-history-and-forged-documents?lang=eng


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Mormonism LIVE !: 014: How Can It Not Be True?

Using a recent video published by the LDS Church titled “How Can It Not Be True”, RFM and Bill Reel take this short 1 minute and 15 second video that attempts to impose faulty evidence and faulty reasoning as proving the Church is true and decimate it. When they are finished, answering the question How can it not be true becomes quite easy.

RESOURCES:

How Can It Not Be True – LDS VIdeo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvxH24aPkTQ

Chris Johnson – Stylistic Drift – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAGasQ7j_ZI

Christopher Smith – Stylistic Drift – http://www.withoutend.org/stylistic-drift-book-mormon-dictation/

Terrence Chambers – New Testament Phrases in the Book of Mormon – http://www.iosrjournals.org/iosr-jhss/papers/Vol.%2022%20Issue2/Version-1/R220201120147.pdf

Book of Mormon Anachronisms – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronisms_in_the_Book_of_Mormon

Criticism of the Book of Mormon – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Book_of_Mormon

19th century material in the Book of Mormon – https://www.churchistrue.com/blog/19th-century-protestant-phrases-in-book-of-mormon/

Book of Mormon Archeology – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

Faithful LDS Scholar Richard Bushman on 19th century material in the Book of Mormon – https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/bushman-on-19th-century-phrasing-and-theology-in-the-book-of-mormon/

Richard Bushman on Joseph Smith producing pseudepigrapha – https://www.missedinsunday.com/memes/scripture/mormon-pseudepigrapha/

synopsis of Grant Palmer’s Insider’s view of Mormon Origins – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Insider%27s_View_of_Mormon_Origins

Grant Palmer’s Mormon Stories Interview – https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/mormon-stories-030-031-032-and-033-an-insiders-view-of-mormon-origins-an-interview-with-grant-palmer/

The Dreams of the Smith Family – Contains Joseph Smith Sr.’s dream that resembles the Vision of the Tree of Life – https://sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/064-22-29.pdf

Introduction to the Grammatical and Substantive changes to the Book of Mormon – http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

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Mormonism LIVE !: 013: What Bad Faith Looks Like

Using a recent article in the Church Magazine “Liahona” (Formerly the Ensign) published by the LDS Church, RFM and Bill Reel dissect whether the Church acts in good faith with how it imposes its narrative and who it blames when that narrative is pointed out as not accurate.  When the Church is informed that it is being inaccurate how does the Church respond, both in its rhetoric in terms of who it blames for the problem and what it says it will do about the problem, as well as what it actually does to correct the problem.  The Video version of this episode and all other episodes can be found on youtube at this url  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5n_8_6j00PSeju0hu2CFXQ Please consider donating to Mormonism LIVE ! to help us keep this live show going by CLICKING HERE Swedish Rescue – https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/swedish-rescue-audio/ Blaming the artists for inaccurate depictions https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng Del Parson’s experience with getting Church art approved https://mormonartist.net/interviews/del-parson/ images more current still obscuring the stone and the hat https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2017/12/joseph-smith-strength-out-of-weakness?lang=eng Even after saying they will correct the problem of inaccurate art depictions they again in 2021 display a deeply inaccurate artistic depiction. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2021/01/what-greater-witness-can-you-have-than-from-god?lang=en

MORMONISM LIVE !: 011: The Rules of the Game

There are five rules to the game of Mormonism; all of them from the perspective of church leaders:

Rule No. 1–We are going to hide stuff from you.

Rule No. 2–We are going to try to keep you from finding the stuff we are hiding from you.

Rule No. 3–We are going to lie about hiding stuff from you.

Rule No. 4–You can’t blame us for hiding stuff from you.

Rule No. 5–If you talk about the stuff we are hiding from you, we will hide you. (See Rule No. 2)Once you understand the five “rules of the game,” everything else falls into place.

RESOURCES:

https://youtu.be/4hAL-qLOISs

https://www.deseret.com/2008/8/2/20379462/be-cautious-about-lds-history-articles-elder-oaks-says?fbclid=IwAR22qAPf6HvVfRVyLX_faN2NGYRqvuxMQj-VUA1I20y_votqlxiy-egQMgI

https://youtu.be/Eqi-ll1PSr0?t=1

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teaching-seminary-preservice-readings-religion-370-471-and-475/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3UdfA0Yy1EIhOpnaIr42oeR8pTPuSmNs-PdFd6NpL5gjX78e1wG8FSqas

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1986/01/truth-and-more?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3lTzVmfLSDIN22CSFzqtYRVpraCSTlnzt0U1k_zvoHGh8G9PwX9SfygG4

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/russell-m-nelson/truth-and-more/?fbclid=IwAR0cxr5OaF7YED0mPLTq57yGcYg5C2SCHgY94bhxST_OzJxo92Fe6Yy5dnk

https://youtu.be/lsi3wLiyiEE?t=520

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-oaks-counsels-young-couples-defending-the-gospel-on-the-frontline-?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR22qAPf6HvVfRVyLX_faN2NGYRqvuxMQj-VUA1I20y_votqlxiy-egQMgI

https://youtu.be/Uj2VWhuW50w?t=2666

https://youtu.be/RPeIgjZ0EQg?t=742

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1993/04/keep-the-faith?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3lTzVmfLSDIN22CSFzqtYRVpraCSTlnzt0U1k_zvoHGh8G9PwX9SfygG4

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2015-10-2060-elder-vern-p-stanfill?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3_4rgQQtelIZwdX-Dm5w6LqIWum5E78RDrDY2He8BeKhjRbi3v-j9zttI

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/56andersen?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3J7TtWjDfYfVjO6xcFXNa1-M5XXsU_luV2H4tj-vKGYOAXRF8TKRR0ci4

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2012/10/can-ye-feel-so-now?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR0_-V_9p9yrxkD9zcCcVpT-szyykb_vcN54k1x83hpb4Zvf5CEOEHN0zzk

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Mormon Discussion: 358: Two Brothers Two Paths

Today I sit down with two brothers, Samuel & Joseph.  Both of these two brothers know the issues.  They both have gone down the rabbit hole of Mormonism seeing its messiness and complexity.  Having gone down the rabbit hole they came out different sides.  Joe’s faith, once strong and both feet in, dissolved and vanished away as he left the Church and navigated the hard path out of the Church and making a new life and a happy one at that.  Sam on the other hand, while agreeing with much of what the critic has to say, has continued to stay seeing value in continued practice and activity and faith that Mormonism can still be and become an inspiring place to be part of community, to raise a family, and to do God’s work.  The most profound part of this conversation is the love and vulnerability these two brothers share with each other, honoring each others path and validating the position that the other has arrived at.  Maybe, there is something each of us can learn from these two incredible men as they seek to set aside faith positions and simply love each other as brothers making space for each other to show up as they are with no expectation of what that should look like.

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MORMONISM LIVE !: 009: Elder David Bednar & Wendy Nelson, Has The Day Of Miracles Ceased?

Moroni 7:27 asks Has the day of Miracles Ceased? The answer in the scriptures is nay. Yet What happens when we take a look at what LDS Leaders suggest as the miracles that are happening. We use two Sound clips at the backdrop of todays discussion. One is David Bednar’s recent BYU devotional where Elder Bednar imposes that miracles are happening today just as in days of old and gives us 8 quotes that are supposed to be evidence of the miracles except there aren’t any…. unless you are counting smiles, hours served, phones answered, and a person was were they were supposed to be.  The second clip revolves around Wendy Nelson informing us that President Nelson was prompted prior to Covid in 2020 to cancel all of their bookings for the year.  But when this “miracle” is examined it seems to contain deep factual problems and negative theological ramifications.

RESOURCES:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/moro/7?lang=eng

https://youtu.be/Az6-7yzZOLs?t=1

https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2021-01-05/sister-wendy-nelson-sheri-dew-president-nelson-prophet-three-years-201007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3yRp2C7BN8&fbclid=IwAR07EbuLdC4cgIibxrFlAruDHq7TuvqkinwLO3eKB_Th6reMy-GHct93fd8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAt4Od0teNg&fbclid=IwAR35-eQ-732TcFVmpQeXAceXtYTZ6MycK378lzYfqqiOBow4Vq7M-70DwWc

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZ4JaCOIL8&fbclid=IwAR27aNOPG308McVU-E5-TaaZiizQddoIXCh3h6cA6kp0QVQlzRJ9HND8HdQ

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Mormon Discussion: 357: Recovering From Religion

Today we sit down with Dr. Darrel Ray and Shane Larsen and talk to them about the organization “Recovering From Religion“.  We talk with Dr. Ray about how this organization got started, his two books “God Virus” and “Sex & God“.  We ask Shane about how he went from a Mormon to volunteering and organizing a local chapter of RFR in Salt Lake City, Utah.  and Then we talk to both of them about the need for such organizations and support to those leaving religion and recovering from the trauma and shame.  We discuss the resources RFR provides and how others can find them.

RESOURCES:

https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/

https://www.meetup.com/rfr-salt-lake-city-ut/Meetup RFR Salt Lake City Group – 

https://www.amazon.com/Sex-God-Religion-Distorts-Sexuality/dp/0970950543https://www.amazon.com/God-Virus-Religion-Infects-Culture/dp/0970950519

https://www.amazon.com/God-Virus-Religion-Infects-Culture/dp/0970950519

 

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MORMONISM LIVE !: 008: Keith Erekson Hoax Expert

We once again develop this weeks episode around Director of the Church History Library, Keith Erekson. Except this time we address his expertise as a hoax expert. No Seriously, this guy is one of the worlds experts on discerning hoaxes. He has written articles, given presentations, and taught in academia about such helping people for years to to discern and deconstruct hoaxes. But catch this….. he has been unable to apply those same tools to his religious beliefs and that is the topic for tonight’s episode

RESOURCES:

https://www.keitherekson.com/2020/03/how-to-detect-a-hoax/

https://www.keitherekson.com/2020/03/how-to-analyze-a-hoax/

https://www.keitherekson.com/2021/01/how-to-talk-about-rumors-and-conspiracy-theories/

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MORMONISM LIVE !: 007: Keith Erekson – Analysis of the Director of the Church History Library

Tonight RFM and Bill Reel take a look at how Director of the Church History Library, Keith A. Erekson, frames apologetics, inoculation, and publicly frames the criticisms of the Church. What tone does he use? What approach does he take with the critic and their criticisms? What approach does he take with the issues? How does he interact with the members of the Church in terms of transparency? Vulnerability? Honesty? and Forthrightness? Is this an improvement or is it a deeper layer of deception? We do this by examining his recent Fireside w/ multiple stakes published on the Fredrickson Stake Youtube Channel

Keith Erekson is the head of the vaults where historical items are saved in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He and his two assistants are the only folks with unfettered access to these archives and storage.

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Mormonism LIVE !: 006: LDS Handbook Changes December 2020 Part 2

RFM and Bill Reel take a look at the December 2020 Changes to the General Handbook of Instruction within the LDS Church. This Second part starts with a special Guest, Wendi Wilcock Jensen, as we dive into the handbook section on Energy Work. From there we discuss the changes involving Transgender people, Changes on the approach to abuse, a new section on Prejudice, and then we conclude with The new section on seeking reliable information and use a soundbite from a Mormonland Podcast interview to show that it is actually the LDS Church that is unreliable, non-credible, and deceptive.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/title-page?lang=eng Soundbite parody in the voice of Gordon Bitner Hinckley at the beginning is from the TikTok artist Mitch Shira also under the name “genie_man”. Please Check out his work !!!

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