Today we take the phrase “The Lord will not permit the prophet to lead the Church astray” and dissect it. What do orthodox members believe that means? What does history tell us? What have leaders said? And in the end Can we have confidence and trust in the answers we get from Prophets, from our own revelation, and lastly… how can we have any confidence in what we perceive is the Holy Ghost
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Sounds like a great opportunity to be addressed during general conference this October. Maybe one of them will take a stab at it.
Michael Ash seems to have the right attitude about it, and it seems like an over reach on anyone’s part to say We will never lead you astray.
This is like a parent trying to tell their child that they know what’s best for them, never mind if the children would prefer something else wherein in some instances the child may have the better recourse of action.
When all is send and done, I still prefer being part of the LDS community of that of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster which lately I’ve been considering affiliating myself with.
Prophets admitting they have taught false doctrine themselves will never happen. Bruce McConkie had the nerve to say Brigham Young taught some bad things,…but hearing Bruce say he himself taught false things (for example, in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine) didn’t and would not have happened.
What is it that makes these guys have to take such a careful approach to admitting mistakes?
Uchdorf said mistakes have been made…but will you ever hear one of these Q15 say: “Yeh, I taught something wrong”?….wont happen.
I think they are afraid it will take the lid off the pressure cooker and will open it up to ALL Their words being scrutinized more by a larger group of people.
I’m of the opinion they will not admit error because of political and internal pressure. Integrity and humility don’t matter [as much]–what matters is the unified front presented to the general membership and the world.
We are also taught that the prophet is the lords mouthpiece. How do we Joseph didn’t lead us all astray when he made up this whole thing? The answer is. It just another man made religion. every time you get a new leader. You get an different ego a different mindset or perspective. A different agenda. that’s why you see the changes and disavowing going on. Different men different ego’s. All man made religion.
In my experience the current church members who invoke this idea use it to jusify why “the thinking has been done” so they don’t have to. In other words, even if they follow the prophet and do something wrong, hurtful, against God’s will – or even just plain evil, that the blame – and consequences – will be meted out to the prophet, and that the lowly member will actually be REWARDED for obedience.
IMO this is very, very frustrating – and potentially even more dangerous.
Love your podcasts! How can I get my eyes on the 1949 presidency message? Not that I don’t believe you, I just want good hard evidence for those that may not believe me.
This was such a validating episode for me. As someone who’s main struggles with the church are how unreliable feelings from the Spirit are, I appreciated this so much. This was the main thing that made me question everything I’d ever known growing up mormon, because I got a very strong answer to a prayer while in the temple, that turned out to be false. I tried all the justifications I could come up with to make it the correct answer, but it was so specific that I had a hard time making it the right answer. It made me doubt everything I’d ever prayed about and everything I’d built my testimony on. It’s a big problem and I haven’t found any good answers to it. The only one I’ve found was Holland’s talk on Wrong Roads. But as RFM talked about in his analysis of that talk a while ago, the talk just didn’t make sense to me and brought no comfort, just showed that prayer really isn’t trustworthy. Keep doing what you’re doing, Bill and RFM, you’re helping so many people!
Oh, yeah! Talk about the church painting itself in the corner, line upon line… Only ways out of this dilemma is to admit and start over with the real Law of Common Consent (no bullying this time), or just keep saying, “Obey! Don’t Question!!! Follow the Profit!!!!”
Thank you for this episode!!! I’ve been making these connections for a while but you summarized it all in a very clear and concise manner. I agree that this is the number one issue within the church. If the prophets can’t even tell us the correct nature of God, then nothing else from them can be fully trusted. They are just guessing like the rest of us. However they claim to speak for god. In my opinion there is nothing more dishonest they could do.